Really great, bro. I remember how difficult it felt going from K-12 Christian school to a state university with 50,000+ students, and how intimidating it was when a lot of really intelligent people seemed to hold beliefs that I thought were contradictory to my fundamental view of the world.
Ironically, it was a conversation with my Cell and Molecular Biology professor freshman year of college that spurred a years-long journey delving into the “science vs. faith” conversation. He was really the first one to introduce me to the idea that you can love science and the exploration of the natural world and also have a deep and meaningful faith in God (and I’m not convinced he was even a believer himself).
I began to view my studies through a Genesis 1 lens - every time I sit down to study, I am fulfilling my vocational call of having dominion over creation. Simply knowing the ins-and-outs of how the world works feels to me like a form of dominion, but in another sense, when I read about the intricacies of a bacterium, or a cancer cell, I can see how to treat it, or how to “rule over it”. Realizing that faith and science are the greatest complements of one another has been the best gift through 4 years of medical school!
Ohhhh my goodness man that last part blew my mind with how amazing it was. Studying bacterium or cancer cells in terms of how to rule over it might be one of the best analogies I’ve ever heard.
Helpful! As a physics teacher in a Christian school environment, I’m going to share your Nobel pie chart with my students. You mentioned Charles Kingsley and Darwin. Interestingly, Kingsley wrote a book actually called “Madam How and Lady Why” in the 1800s which tries to reconcile the roles of science & faith similarly to how you do later in your article.
My first spiritual director was a Jesuit priest. Before he became a priest, he was an astrophysicist. And Jewish. And an atheist.
He said that the more he studied the universe, the more he discovered all that humans do not know. He also started pondering the idea that the world as we know it, and human life in general, and his life in particular, could have happened by mere random chance. As a scientist, he knew the odds were beyond infinitesimal.
I grew up in a christian home and my father was a chemist so it never dawned on me that science and faith should not belong together. And after working in chemistry for 30 years I haven’t noticed the opposition. Before I even got to the graph I was estimating 75% of my chemistry group at work are christians and that was surprisingly consistent with the Nobel prize graph. I think satan jumped on Darwin’s work to cause division. Thank you for the thoughtful article.
Thanks for this, Griffin. Lately I've come into contact with many Christians who embrace illogical scientific ideas because they believe commonly accepted scientific beliefs aren't compatible with their faith (think flat earth theories, etc.) This post was a good reminder that true scientific facts and the Bible are always compatible and complementary.
the "how" and "why" distinction is deeply important. John Walton speaks of a couple who walk into a home, considering buying it. The husband, an interior designer, walks in and begins asking questions of space, hospitality, livability. The wife, a structural engineer, however, begins asking questions of when it was built, what building materials were used, age of the pipes and wiring, etc. They were speaking of the same house, but from two important and needed perspectives.
i found that to be a super helpful analogy for the "how" and "why".
I hope that the author will read this far down. Mr. Gooch, I loved the article. My head had to get in gear to put thing together. It was thick and so was . But you made a statement I had never heard or considered. You wrote Science can explain how the brain produces passionate feelings of romance for 12-18 months, but can only speculate on why a couple continues to stick together after those 12-18 months are up.
Is there something like the 12-18 month and then couple chills out sexually? I have never heard of this after 40 years of pastoral counseling, pre-marital.
It’s a big conversation, but scientists make a difference between passionate love, companionate love, and covenant love. Many secular scientists make the rationale that people may as well break up and switch partners after the 12-18 month period is over because it seems neurologically logical, while long term marriage doesn’t seem to make much evolutionary sense. I think that’s part of why Paul called it a great “mystery.”
Love the comment from The Substantial Life that the conflict between faith and science is often a matter of “scientifically uneducated theologians arguing with theologically uneducated scientists.” I’ve been very blessed through the years by the work of Vern Poythress, whose doctorates in both math (Harvard) and theology (Stellenbosch) give him a joyfully creative approach to biblical studies and a unique perspective on science and faith. Incredibly, he offers free downloads of some of his books on the web site he shares with John Frame, Frame-Poythress.org.
When I first came to Jesus, I had previously been an atheist who believed is rational science. What I discovered is that the scientific community is suppressing the truth or ignoring the truth because they don’t want to believe it is true. The Bible is more accurate than science!
So much to ponder here. My husband is a theoretical physicist and we have conversations about science and faith regularly. I’m going to share this article with him now. 🙏🏼 appreciate your thoughtful (and learned) letters. A breath of needed air.
i was so blessed to have parents who taught me, and showed me, from a very young age, that science and our faith were friends, not enemies. i had implicit trust that the Creator of the universe was sovereignly and mightily displayed in the study of science, and i never had to doubt that, praise God!
i do always find it funny that often, past proponents of foolishness (those two bros who said there was inherent tension to science and faith) were usually attached to other silly ideas, like the earth being flat. i had no idea that this idea of tension was so recent, but i suppose it does make sense that that would arise in tandem, or shortly after, the introduction of evolution.
My doctoral degree in pharmacy required high level courses in biology, chemistry, and physics. In a lot of ways, I felt that growing up in the church and my knowledge of the Bible (theology) allowed me to view what I was learning through the lens of reconciliation…science and faith are easily interconnected, not mutually exclusive.
To me, everything I learned in science supported my faith…the how behind the why. Like someone said in the comments already, when I was viewing the tiniest microorganism under a microscope, or observing the results of a chemical reaction of unseen molecules, I couldn’t help but believe that it testified of God.
Are there incorrect theories and arguments out there on both sides…of course! But disagreements about science and faith often arise when the parties debating the issue lack knowledge about their “opponents” beliefs. There are scientists who lack theological knowledge and frameworks, and there are people of faith who refuse to look at the amazing discoveries modern science has afforded humanity. The best conclusions will always be achieved when people work together to gain knowledge on both sides of an issue.
Thank you for tackling this discussion, Griffin! It’s something I feel is needed in our current culture, and honestly something I’d like to research deeper myself!!
Really great, bro. I remember how difficult it felt going from K-12 Christian school to a state university with 50,000+ students, and how intimidating it was when a lot of really intelligent people seemed to hold beliefs that I thought were contradictory to my fundamental view of the world.
Ironically, it was a conversation with my Cell and Molecular Biology professor freshman year of college that spurred a years-long journey delving into the “science vs. faith” conversation. He was really the first one to introduce me to the idea that you can love science and the exploration of the natural world and also have a deep and meaningful faith in God (and I’m not convinced he was even a believer himself).
I began to view my studies through a Genesis 1 lens - every time I sit down to study, I am fulfilling my vocational call of having dominion over creation. Simply knowing the ins-and-outs of how the world works feels to me like a form of dominion, but in another sense, when I read about the intricacies of a bacterium, or a cancer cell, I can see how to treat it, or how to “rule over it”. Realizing that faith and science are the greatest complements of one another has been the best gift through 4 years of medical school!
Ohhhh my goodness man that last part blew my mind with how amazing it was. Studying bacterium or cancer cells in terms of how to rule over it might be one of the best analogies I’ve ever heard.
Helpful! As a physics teacher in a Christian school environment, I’m going to share your Nobel pie chart with my students. You mentioned Charles Kingsley and Darwin. Interestingly, Kingsley wrote a book actually called “Madam How and Lady Why” in the 1800s which tries to reconcile the roles of science & faith similarly to how you do later in your article.
Wow that is so interesting!! Probably should’ve known that myself but I’m so grateful that you shared!!!
My first spiritual director was a Jesuit priest. Before he became a priest, he was an astrophysicist. And Jewish. And an atheist.
He said that the more he studied the universe, the more he discovered all that humans do not know. He also started pondering the idea that the world as we know it, and human life in general, and his life in particular, could have happened by mere random chance. As a scientist, he knew the odds were beyond infinitesimal.
This was the beginning of his conversion.
That is such a beautiful story. Thanks so much for sharing!
Wonderful (in its literal meaning). The amount of Jewish Nobel Prize winners given their percentage of the total population is pretty astounding.
I grew up in a christian home and my father was a chemist so it never dawned on me that science and faith should not belong together. And after working in chemistry for 30 years I haven’t noticed the opposition. Before I even got to the graph I was estimating 75% of my chemistry group at work are christians and that was surprisingly consistent with the Nobel prize graph. I think satan jumped on Darwin’s work to cause division. Thank you for the thoughtful article.
Amazing! definitely agree with your point about Darwin too. Thanks so much for reading :)
Thanks for this, Griffin. Lately I've come into contact with many Christians who embrace illogical scientific ideas because they believe commonly accepted scientific beliefs aren't compatible with their faith (think flat earth theories, etc.) This post was a good reminder that true scientific facts and the Bible are always compatible and complementary.
Thanks so much E.G.! Glad you liked it!!
Science and faith existing in a symbiotic relationship. Yes yes yes 🙌🏼
The realm of science is such a rich place for theology. I cannot overstate how much I love this. Five gold stars.
the "how" and "why" distinction is deeply important. John Walton speaks of a couple who walk into a home, considering buying it. The husband, an interior designer, walks in and begins asking questions of space, hospitality, livability. The wife, a structural engineer, however, begins asking questions of when it was built, what building materials were used, age of the pipes and wiring, etc. They were speaking of the same house, but from two important and needed perspectives.
i found that to be a super helpful analogy for the "how" and "why".
Dude you’re killing it w these analogies per usual
Thiiiiiiiis is good work, my brother! Thank you for walking us through this in DEPTH.
Thanks for reading!!
I hope that the author will read this far down. Mr. Gooch, I loved the article. My head had to get in gear to put thing together. It was thick and so was . But you made a statement I had never heard or considered. You wrote Science can explain how the brain produces passionate feelings of romance for 12-18 months, but can only speculate on why a couple continues to stick together after those 12-18 months are up.
Is there something like the 12-18 month and then couple chills out sexually? I have never heard of this after 40 years of pastoral counseling, pre-marital.
And thanks again for the article.
It’s a big conversation, but scientists make a difference between passionate love, companionate love, and covenant love. Many secular scientists make the rationale that people may as well break up and switch partners after the 12-18 month period is over because it seems neurologically logical, while long term marriage doesn’t seem to make much evolutionary sense. I think that’s part of why Paul called it a great “mystery.”
Love the comment from The Substantial Life that the conflict between faith and science is often a matter of “scientifically uneducated theologians arguing with theologically uneducated scientists.” I’ve been very blessed through the years by the work of Vern Poythress, whose doctorates in both math (Harvard) and theology (Stellenbosch) give him a joyfully creative approach to biblical studies and a unique perspective on science and faith. Incredibly, he offers free downloads of some of his books on the web site he shares with John Frame, Frame-Poythress.org.
When I first came to Jesus, I had previously been an atheist who believed is rational science. What I discovered is that the scientific community is suppressing the truth or ignoring the truth because they don’t want to believe it is true. The Bible is more accurate than science!
Hi, Griffin! I think you would appreciate this essay on White and Draper by William Poulos, here:
https://williampoulos.substack.com/p/two-dead-men-are-fooling-you
I saw that one!! It's a wonderful article!
So much to ponder here. My husband is a theoretical physicist and we have conversations about science and faith regularly. I’m going to share this article with him now. 🙏🏼 appreciate your thoughtful (and learned) letters. A breath of needed air.
Thanks so much Caroline I'm so happy you liked it!!
i was so blessed to have parents who taught me, and showed me, from a very young age, that science and our faith were friends, not enemies. i had implicit trust that the Creator of the universe was sovereignly and mightily displayed in the study of science, and i never had to doubt that, praise God!
i do always find it funny that often, past proponents of foolishness (those two bros who said there was inherent tension to science and faith) were usually attached to other silly ideas, like the earth being flat. i had no idea that this idea of tension was so recent, but i suppose it does make sense that that would arise in tandem, or shortly after, the introduction of evolution.
really enjoyed this!!
Thanks so much Macey I’m glad you liked it!! Also, you have the coolest parents ever that’s seriously amazing.
My doctoral degree in pharmacy required high level courses in biology, chemistry, and physics. In a lot of ways, I felt that growing up in the church and my knowledge of the Bible (theology) allowed me to view what I was learning through the lens of reconciliation…science and faith are easily interconnected, not mutually exclusive.
To me, everything I learned in science supported my faith…the how behind the why. Like someone said in the comments already, when I was viewing the tiniest microorganism under a microscope, or observing the results of a chemical reaction of unseen molecules, I couldn’t help but believe that it testified of God.
Are there incorrect theories and arguments out there on both sides…of course! But disagreements about science and faith often arise when the parties debating the issue lack knowledge about their “opponents” beliefs. There are scientists who lack theological knowledge and frameworks, and there are people of faith who refuse to look at the amazing discoveries modern science has afforded humanity. The best conclusions will always be achieved when people work together to gain knowledge on both sides of an issue.
Thank you for tackling this discussion, Griffin! It’s something I feel is needed in our current culture, and honestly something I’d like to research deeper myself!!
That’s so good Lindsey. I seriously love that. Thank you so much for sharing!! Love hearing your input!