Before I quit my job as a corporate lawyer, I was making well over $200k at 27 years old and had graduated from a top law school etc. I was also completely miserable and less confident than ever. It's tough - I was raised in a competitive environment and molded to reach the top echelons of academic success (and since I didn't go to Yale, Harvard, or Princeton I technically "failed" at that). But once it happens, you're like the dog that's caught its tail and you often don't know what to do. So much of your identity is bound up in getting somewhere and then when you get there it's confusing because you're still the same person and life is still hard.
I'm sure this is different for men and women so that's another layer of it but the emphasis on intelligence and high achievement was not good for me. I was only able to relax once I was able to let go of it all and stay home with my son.
Wow thank you so much for sharing this!! That’s truly such a remarkable story. I’m thankful that you got out of that because it does not sound very life giving. I really appreciate you taking the time to comment!
I feel sad that so many feel this intense pressure to 'appear' successful. I've never achieved the world's standards of success (not even close), but now in my 70's I am learning the importance of simple contentment. I'm not there yet, but am learning that being peace-filled is more desirable than being successful. God bless and keep you, Griffin!
I think the negative effects of this pursuit really hit home when you talk about seeing perpetual adolescence in others. So many of us are trying to “grow up” without people showing us how. I mean, maybe they show us in one way (financially) but not another (emotionally), but to have holistic examples of wise adulthood is…quite rare.
Thank you for this piece. I think it’s a great complement to the biblical wisdom literature on aging; I’m really glad you included the Proverbs at the end.
As I read this (obviously past my 20s) I wondered whether it's "immature" to still feel, say, 8 years old inside. Maybe that has to do with the never feeling like we belong (so true; thank you for calling that out!) ... but there is also Madeleine L'Engle's observation that “the great thing about getting older is that you don't lose all the other ages you've been.” We all grow at our own pace -- and you ARE precocious. And precious :)
Great stuff, as usual, brother. Your comments about the "relativity" of success are especially appreciated. As a pastor whose ministerial aspirations sometimes succumb to what everyone else is doing or achieving, it is heartening to be reminded that the present moment or "age" is precisely where God wants me to be. Life, after all, in all of its kaleidoscope of moments, is a gift.
Ministerial success is one of the hardest forms of success to not tie your identity to. So much emotion is roped up into it because of the larger spiritual dimensions, so I really don’t blame you.
This is so true, Griffin. It is also exacerbated by the tendency to find one’s identity in one’s ministerial position and/or performance. When that occurs, success becomes idolized, and the gift of faith and life becomes harder to perceive.
oh, this is such a gift of growing older! It’s easy to fear. but once you’re there - I’m 58 - you start to feel this sense of contentment. it’s wonderful.
I’m still driven! I still have big goals, big plans, and I want to change the world. but i also value my own experience and wisdom, I don’t judge myself, and I don’t think I’m alone. it’s wonderful. and a good reason to claim your age :)
I am concerned about what people think but I never considered lying about my age - it just seems silly! I have decided to embrace the age of wisdom. I would never want to go back to my youth. I just don't understand it! Thanks for your informative article!
Fascinating topic, Griffin. You do such a fantastic job on articles here. Fantastic quotes and well researched. I didn’t know this was going on to this extent, though I thought you covered this broader topic of achievement anxiety with tremendous skill. I never thought about lying about my age. Perpetual adolescence is quite a phrase. I have seen people who don’t seem willing to embrace adulthood or responsibility.
I love your comment about the best self care being caring for others. I agree adulthood and maturity are the goal.
You’re so good and tackling meaningful topics. Great work!
You’re the kind of person I would love to talk with over tea. Thanks for all you offer through your thoughtful work.
Had to come back to this post, and try to understand the frustration that can affect the more socially oriented people who work harder to compete or to fit in. That could be like a treadmill, much harder than the one we take on to support a family.
I dumped my career (again) for ethical reasons, am definitely not keeping up with my peers, and am embracing my age. I can’t reverse the clock, and it costs less not to try! 😎 My prescription: Jump off the social treadmill, and do something fun!
Good article. You're my pulse on the world that I would otherwise ignore, and I appreciate your investment in understanding the trends.
The plaguing and nagging messages that always gnaw at our ability to engage the present! Evagrius called them logismoi, and compiled a whole list of Scriptures to "talk back" to the them, as in "take every thought captive." Nicole Roccas (Time and Despondency) has some interesting notes on this:
"Like the body, the soul can become sick, particularly when the mind dominates the heart." Cross reference this with Prov 2:14, which tells us Wisdom's residence is oddly in the heart, a "heart of Wisdom" per Psa 90. I wonder if this article could be compared to your article on Oxytocin?
"Like an unsolicited artist, logismoi paint on the canvas of our minds images of the world that may or may not be based in reality." I would actually argue, with Habakkuk (2:13) and Solomon (Eccl) that achievement-oriented activity is actually unproductive, even delusional and psychotic. The entire world is set on a cycle of shocks and resets, so that it is better to have "one handful with peace and tranquility, than two with toil and chasing the wind." Less attachments to stuff make it easier to transition to the inevitable, and truth and people strengthen you (Heb 12:12) while amenities weaken you.
Paul (Phi 3:8) and Isaiah (40) have the best perspective on worldly achievement: a pile of dust or a pile of s**t--take your pick.
I feel "privileged" as a combat vet, having seen and learned to admire people who survived in the most austere circumstances. They taught me to think like Martin Sheen in the beginning of Apocalypse Now: "I'm here a week now, waiting for a mission, getting softer. Every minute I stay in this room, I get weaker, and every minute Charlie squats in the bush, he gets stronger" Joseph Conrad's take on modernity's "achievements" is worth bolstering ourselves with.
I enjoy spending time with people older than myself. I'm in the local civic choir, and something about grey-haired splendor keeps me from self-detonating, as I see younger people spinning their whirling dervish around me---unnecessary new car syndrome, etc. Maybe we could swing the Apocalypse Now quote to see the older ones are really the strong ones, and we're getting weak thinking about a mirage: "the fountain of youth."
Working as a spiritual director, i looked forward to the grey hairs coming in. I regularly feel older than I am and that has felt like a positive for most of my life. Now at 43, the issue for me isn't so much wanting people to think I am younger, but dealing with the thought inside of myself that my life hasn't "produced" any quality output. The deeper lie in all of it is that my value of my soul and my deepest self is somehow attached to what my hands and mind have churned out. Falling into this age-old trap (that I am what I do) remains my greatest wrestle.
Griffin, thanks for the time you took looking into this! I really enjoyed it. Those stats were pretty eye-opening.
I just finished Tim Keller’s little book “The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness.” It’s his brief reflection of Paul’s statement in 1 Corinthians 4:3: “I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.”
Kellers aim is to get underneath this statement to see what leads Paul to say such a thing. And the conclusion he comes to is the Gospel. Everyday, we are performing in the court of public opinion in the hopes that they will render a good verdict. But in Christianity, says Keller, the ultimate verdict of approval has already been given to us from God on account of Christ’s finished work. So now, we can “perform” in light of the verdict we have received. Which means being able to engage in various activities for the joy of doing them.
Of course, Keller also rightly points out that this isn’t a one-and-done sort of thing. We must consistently rehearse this Gospel to ourselves.
One of my absolute favorites! thanks for bringing it up because that totally fits with this essay and I didn't even think of it. That book is criminally underead; we need more people reading it
I retired a year ago after 20 years in the military and another 23 in the corporate world. Both domains celebrated and rewarded the youthful image, sometimes over substance. In both domains, I was ultimately a manager. Success for me was to help my people succeed, frankly, the organizations depended on the people’s success to truly be successful. I got the most excited when breaking down a barrier for a teammate or employee. When I first entered the corporate world, I was 15 years older than my peers. I had a different perspective. It was hard being supportive to my peers, some didn’t want my help; I really wanted them to crush their goals, but I didn’t want to come off as the “crusty old guy.” And yes, ageism was real. Some were intimidated by my age and experience, those were the challenges. Those that saw my experience as an asset, were much better teammates/employees.
Thank you so much for sharing this experience! That dynamic is so relevant to this conversation. Age is a very underlooked aspect of life in the West and I think we'd all benefit from taking the stigmas about it more seriously. Thanks again for reading and sharing this experience!
Before I quit my job as a corporate lawyer, I was making well over $200k at 27 years old and had graduated from a top law school etc. I was also completely miserable and less confident than ever. It's tough - I was raised in a competitive environment and molded to reach the top echelons of academic success (and since I didn't go to Yale, Harvard, or Princeton I technically "failed" at that). But once it happens, you're like the dog that's caught its tail and you often don't know what to do. So much of your identity is bound up in getting somewhere and then when you get there it's confusing because you're still the same person and life is still hard.
I'm sure this is different for men and women so that's another layer of it but the emphasis on intelligence and high achievement was not good for me. I was only able to relax once I was able to let go of it all and stay home with my son.
Wow thank you so much for sharing this!! That’s truly such a remarkable story. I’m thankful that you got out of that because it does not sound very life giving. I really appreciate you taking the time to comment!
I feel sad that so many feel this intense pressure to 'appear' successful. I've never achieved the world's standards of success (not even close), but now in my 70's I am learning the importance of simple contentment. I'm not there yet, but am learning that being peace-filled is more desirable than being successful. God bless and keep you, Griffin!
That’s beautiful, thank you for sharing that! And thanks so much for reading Mary!
I think the negative effects of this pursuit really hit home when you talk about seeing perpetual adolescence in others. So many of us are trying to “grow up” without people showing us how. I mean, maybe they show us in one way (financially) but not another (emotionally), but to have holistic examples of wise adulthood is…quite rare.
Thank you for this piece. I think it’s a great complement to the biblical wisdom literature on aging; I’m really glad you included the Proverbs at the end.
Thanks for reading Leah!!
As I read this (obviously past my 20s) I wondered whether it's "immature" to still feel, say, 8 years old inside. Maybe that has to do with the never feeling like we belong (so true; thank you for calling that out!) ... but there is also Madeleine L'Engle's observation that “the great thing about getting older is that you don't lose all the other ages you've been.” We all grow at our own pace -- and you ARE precocious. And precious :)
I love that L’Engle line! Thanks so much for sharing !
Great stuff, as usual, brother. Your comments about the "relativity" of success are especially appreciated. As a pastor whose ministerial aspirations sometimes succumb to what everyone else is doing or achieving, it is heartening to be reminded that the present moment or "age" is precisely where God wants me to be. Life, after all, in all of its kaleidoscope of moments, is a gift.
Ministerial success is one of the hardest forms of success to not tie your identity to. So much emotion is roped up into it because of the larger spiritual dimensions, so I really don’t blame you.
This is so true, Griffin. It is also exacerbated by the tendency to find one’s identity in one’s ministerial position and/or performance. When that occurs, success becomes idolized, and the gift of faith and life becomes harder to perceive.
oh, this is such a gift of growing older! It’s easy to fear. but once you’re there - I’m 58 - you start to feel this sense of contentment. it’s wonderful.
I’m still driven! I still have big goals, big plans, and I want to change the world. but i also value my own experience and wisdom, I don’t judge myself, and I don’t think I’m alone. it’s wonderful. and a good reason to claim your age :)
I love to hear it. Thanks so much for reading !!
This was a great read. I’ve felt very “behind” lately even though I know that’s made up.
Thanks so much for reading Lisa!
I am concerned about what people think but I never considered lying about my age - it just seems silly! I have decided to embrace the age of wisdom. I would never want to go back to my youth. I just don't understand it! Thanks for your informative article!
Great point! Thanks so much for reading Dawn!
Fascinating topic, Griffin. You do such a fantastic job on articles here. Fantastic quotes and well researched. I didn’t know this was going on to this extent, though I thought you covered this broader topic of achievement anxiety with tremendous skill. I never thought about lying about my age. Perpetual adolescence is quite a phrase. I have seen people who don’t seem willing to embrace adulthood or responsibility.
I love your comment about the best self care being caring for others. I agree adulthood and maturity are the goal.
You’re so good and tackling meaningful topics. Great work!
You’re the kind of person I would love to talk with over tea. Thanks for all you offer through your thoughtful work.
Great job on this one. Found myself nodding in agreement the entire time.
Thanks Jake!
Had to come back to this post, and try to understand the frustration that can affect the more socially oriented people who work harder to compete or to fit in. That could be like a treadmill, much harder than the one we take on to support a family.
I dumped my career (again) for ethical reasons, am definitely not keeping up with my peers, and am embracing my age. I can’t reverse the clock, and it costs less not to try! 😎 My prescription: Jump off the social treadmill, and do something fun!
Good article. You're my pulse on the world that I would otherwise ignore, and I appreciate your investment in understanding the trends.
The plaguing and nagging messages that always gnaw at our ability to engage the present! Evagrius called them logismoi, and compiled a whole list of Scriptures to "talk back" to the them, as in "take every thought captive." Nicole Roccas (Time and Despondency) has some interesting notes on this:
"Like the body, the soul can become sick, particularly when the mind dominates the heart." Cross reference this with Prov 2:14, which tells us Wisdom's residence is oddly in the heart, a "heart of Wisdom" per Psa 90. I wonder if this article could be compared to your article on Oxytocin?
"Like an unsolicited artist, logismoi paint on the canvas of our minds images of the world that may or may not be based in reality." I would actually argue, with Habakkuk (2:13) and Solomon (Eccl) that achievement-oriented activity is actually unproductive, even delusional and psychotic. The entire world is set on a cycle of shocks and resets, so that it is better to have "one handful with peace and tranquility, than two with toil and chasing the wind." Less attachments to stuff make it easier to transition to the inevitable, and truth and people strengthen you (Heb 12:12) while amenities weaken you.
Paul (Phi 3:8) and Isaiah (40) have the best perspective on worldly achievement: a pile of dust or a pile of s**t--take your pick.
I feel "privileged" as a combat vet, having seen and learned to admire people who survived in the most austere circumstances. They taught me to think like Martin Sheen in the beginning of Apocalypse Now: "I'm here a week now, waiting for a mission, getting softer. Every minute I stay in this room, I get weaker, and every minute Charlie squats in the bush, he gets stronger" Joseph Conrad's take on modernity's "achievements" is worth bolstering ourselves with.
I enjoy spending time with people older than myself. I'm in the local civic choir, and something about grey-haired splendor keeps me from self-detonating, as I see younger people spinning their whirling dervish around me---unnecessary new car syndrome, etc. Maybe we could swing the Apocalypse Now quote to see the older ones are really the strong ones, and we're getting weak thinking about a mirage: "the fountain of youth."
Working as a spiritual director, i looked forward to the grey hairs coming in. I regularly feel older than I am and that has felt like a positive for most of my life. Now at 43, the issue for me isn't so much wanting people to think I am younger, but dealing with the thought inside of myself that my life hasn't "produced" any quality output. The deeper lie in all of it is that my value of my soul and my deepest self is somehow attached to what my hands and mind have churned out. Falling into this age-old trap (that I am what I do) remains my greatest wrestle.
dude drumming with DC Talk has already earned you an infinite amount of cred
hahaha
Griffin, thanks for the time you took looking into this! I really enjoyed it. Those stats were pretty eye-opening.
I just finished Tim Keller’s little book “The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness.” It’s his brief reflection of Paul’s statement in 1 Corinthians 4:3: “I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.”
Kellers aim is to get underneath this statement to see what leads Paul to say such a thing. And the conclusion he comes to is the Gospel. Everyday, we are performing in the court of public opinion in the hopes that they will render a good verdict. But in Christianity, says Keller, the ultimate verdict of approval has already been given to us from God on account of Christ’s finished work. So now, we can “perform” in light of the verdict we have received. Which means being able to engage in various activities for the joy of doing them.
Of course, Keller also rightly points out that this isn’t a one-and-done sort of thing. We must consistently rehearse this Gospel to ourselves.
One of my absolute favorites! thanks for bringing it up because that totally fits with this essay and I didn't even think of it. That book is criminally underead; we need more people reading it
Sooo interesting, as always!
Thanks for reading Sierra!
I retired a year ago after 20 years in the military and another 23 in the corporate world. Both domains celebrated and rewarded the youthful image, sometimes over substance. In both domains, I was ultimately a manager. Success for me was to help my people succeed, frankly, the organizations depended on the people’s success to truly be successful. I got the most excited when breaking down a barrier for a teammate or employee. When I first entered the corporate world, I was 15 years older than my peers. I had a different perspective. It was hard being supportive to my peers, some didn’t want my help; I really wanted them to crush their goals, but I didn’t want to come off as the “crusty old guy.” And yes, ageism was real. Some were intimidated by my age and experience, those were the challenges. Those that saw my experience as an asset, were much better teammates/employees.
Thank you so much for sharing this experience! That dynamic is so relevant to this conversation. Age is a very underlooked aspect of life in the West and I think we'd all benefit from taking the stigmas about it more seriously. Thanks again for reading and sharing this experience!